How difficult is it to go pro?

i think a factor that important to remember here is what type of photography (and the client base u run in) a photographer is dealing with.
for instance i work almost exclusively for the ad agencies...these guys are billing there clients R30k - R100k so they generally dont mind paying me a 'pro' rate. that said i have to be able to get whatever image they need, from cars to models to landscapes to heavily manipulated stuff.
most 'amateurs' wont do this kind of work and feel safer dealing with weddings and strait fashion/family portrait work. and in that market photography is mostly a luxury not a business necessity...so its only natural that they will 'hunt' for the best price.

most 'amateurs' wont do this kind of work and feel safer dealing with weddings and strait fashion/family portrait work. and in that market photography is mostly a luxury not a business necessity...so its only natural that they will 'hunt' for the best price.

OUCH!!!! scuse me while I go chew through my wrists cause of course all "pros" started out with billing their clients "pro rates".

My point is stop bitching and calling people "amatures" as if it is somehow something dirty, when they are only where you were 5 or 10 years ago. Not everyone can be an award winning photographer from the first pic they have ever taken.

I must be a pro. I used a 4-light setup + the sun on saturday. PLUS (and this is really what makes me a pro), I used a lightmeter ... properly.

Christo - unless some yuppie gallery owner called your work "quaint"
or maybe "naieve", you are nowhere near beaing a pro!

Christo - unless some yuppie gallery owner called your work "quaint"
or maybe "naieve", you are nowhere near beaing a pro!

Actually a gallery owner called "very mature for someone who has only been at it since 2007"

The point is i used a light meter and not my camera view screen thingy. I MUST be a pro.

no no...im not saying pro as a dirty word here, i mean it in its purest form. and im generalizing.
its just my 2c worth based on the topic of what people are charging.
honestly it seems that most of the people on this thread have already made up there minds
and thats fine...but then there isent much reason to carry on debating it

no no...im not saying pro as a dirty word here, i mean it in its purest form. and im generalizing.

No pros use "amature" as a dirty word.

honestly it seems that most of the people on this thread have already made up there minds
and thats fine

Not true. Matt changedmy mind and I see the rationale behind it. s you say as well, different rates for different markets and different markets for different folks. I just dont like it when poeple refer to 'amatures" as low quality lepars who will somehow bring along the fall of "the industry" and all in it unless they all immediately start shooting ads and charing R10 000 a shoot.

I wish I could charge R10 000 a shoot. Seriously. The fact it I am not at that level yet but I am a damn lot further than I was 2 years ago. I (and I think a lott of other here but I speak formyself) just feel a but marganilised as hobbyists intefering with the "real togs"

We are frikking getting there DAMMIT!!!! Just give us some time and a bit of space :P

I just wish SA had some kinds of bureau of standards for the photographic profession, like there is overseas. It still doesn't stop amatuers, beginners, hobbiests, semi-pros from shooting, but it does give you credibility. In a tiny way.

But Mr Neographis' first post about the level of industry you work in is pretty spot on.

To illustrate, I quoted on an international fashion ad campaign to be shot here in CPT. It was a 3 day shoot, 8 final images, storyboard was drawn, the whole shebang. I worked out & quoted just under R97k. That was for everything from location permits, to full team, to lights & rigging. It was turned down because it was "too cheap" to what was being expected. While I could have easily with one hand behind my back & an eye-patch shot what they were wanting, they felt they wanted 'more' for their ad campaign.

So don't ever think that a monetary value associated to your work doen't speak volumes about your percieved value to a client.

This isnt usually the type of thread I like to get involved in anymore. Ive seen it hashed out here and everywhere else for years... and I still honestly dont see the point, but I thought Id voice my opinion (which has changed over the years).

Ive noticed that this industry in particular seem to obsess over the term pro / professional with EVERYTHING. Ive seen people trying to sell lens wipes as "professional lens wipes," someone whom got a entry level DSLR, with a cellphone contract, decide to shoot weddings on weekends... technically he earns some money from it, so he's now a pro. Pro lenses, pro bodies, bags. Professional batteries... Its gotten to the stage where the market seems to be controlling everything. If I went and offered personalized crap paper, with your chosen brand of camera... Id call it Professional Photographer wipes... Id be rich.

The word professional doesnt mean anything to me anymore... Im under the impression, youre either fulltime in the industry, partime, or a hobbyist. It really doesnt matter, what you call yourself, its the value people place on the quality of your work, your ethic, and how well you kiss ass and schmooze, if youre into fashion, and editorial.

Obviously this is just my opinion, and Im not forcing it on anyone reading this.

[edit] Here's a prime example (no offense to anyone who uses this product... its justa an example) : http://www.henselusa.com/manuals.html

As a matter of fact screw "professional photographer wipes..." Im going to call it..." Professional PRO, unlimate, premium, postumus douchebag swipes"

That way people will know, its not just for profesional's, but pro profesionals only. To be a pro professional, no other product will do. meh :-/

still doesn't stop amatuers, beginners, hobbiests, semi-pros from shooting, but it does give you credibility.

So if someone stop you from shooting when you were a beginner, would you be where you are today?

Im under the impression, youre either fulltime in the industry, partime, or a hobbyist. It really doesnt matter, what you call yourself, its the value people place on the quality of your work, your ethic, and how well you kiss ass and schmooze, if youre into fashion, and editorial.

Thomas, you know i have loads of respect for you but what is so bad about the quality of your work and your work ethic determining whether you are pro or not?

I shoot with a Canon 400d. hell even Mark did a fashion series with a 350D. are his images all of a sudden of a lower standard because his camera is inferior? Is he any less of a pro for it?

I walked up Kloof street the other day. Desingner shop with BIG images in the windows. Instead of being awes by the work of a "pro" I though "WTF, I could have shot that in my lounge"

I do agree with you though thomas that the word "pro" has no meaning anymore. just like "artist". All made valuless but then again that is the nature of being human. I bet cobblers felt exactly the same way with the coming of the industrial era.

So if someone stop you from shooting when you were a beginner, would you be where you are today?

I'm saying it DOESN'T stop anyone from shooting to their hearts content.

My heads to sore for this.

ps: Christo, next time you're walking up Loop/Shortmarket, come pop in at me if I'm here. (78 Shortmarket)

Here's a prime example (no offense to anyone who uses this product... its justa an example) :

Zat iz vy I only uz Elinchrom darlink. uh the cheap ones and my sls genrics with 3 settings and uhm my catus trigger. OH and an expencive borrowed lightmeter. DO NOT forget the lightmeter.

lol, don't knock the Elinchrom & Cactus combo... I use that. :P

ps: Christo, next time you're walking up Loop/Shortmarket, come pop in at me if I'm here. (78 Shortmarket)

Will definately do so. I'm in the Golden Acre. just gotta beg to boss for a longer lunch lol

lol, don't know the Elinchrom & Cactus combo... I use that. :P

OMW!!! I'M A PRO!!! I'M A PRO!!!
BUT, do you use a lightmeter?

Nope, never owned or used a lightmeter in my life.

But I did have an uncle whose cousins best friends friend saw one once...